100th Post, Mark II Hordes Musings

So I'm pretty well sure I'm going to go with Protectorate of Menoth for Warmachine. I've contacted a local guy who's selling his Protectorate army (not because of MKII). I've also been reading the MKII rules and stat cards and I see and agree with almost al of the rules changes and those that I don't like are so few I'll learn to live with them. However, the whole thing leads me to think about what will happen to my beloved Trolls when time for MKII Hordes comes around.

I love my champions. They really do make for an awesome force. However, perhaps Concert may be a bit strong and possibly confusing. I see either Concert or Brothers in Arms being toned back a bit, not that I would like that, but perhaps PP thinks it best.
Grim Angus. I see his feat changing. As it stands right now it's quite a bit of information to digest to play it. Also, he will most likely lose some of his vision abilities for whatever reason.
Borka and Kenny, Chiller may be dropped as a spell. His bomb may not bounce anymore. Not sure.
Fell Callers, god, I hope not, but they may bring their song choices down.
Grissel, I see her as her fell calls taking an action in MKII. ANd her feat will probably be toned down.

We'll see in a year, and I hope we don't see many changes, but it's quite possible we will.

Any ideas what possible MKII Hordes changes we should expect for the trolls? Anything you think may be overpowered?

by the way, i'm going to try to start blogging int he AM before work so I can post pictures and make this blog a bit more interesting.

Grissel's Broke!

Ok, I was reading a thread yesterday on Battle College about how you could run Grissel after Fell Calling her. I had worked up a great response on why they should take it down and then I re-read Grissel and noticed, "hey, her fell calls aren't actions!" To that end I posted to the better rules forum (Guru Dojo Thread) I use most often who advised I post to the big boards (The Big Boards)

Um, I just noticed that Grissel's fell calls are not actions like a normal Fell Caller (thus, allowing her to Fell Call then run).

Does this mean that I can use her Fell Calls if she is made stationary by Sorscha's feat or knocked down?

Stationary reads:
Prime Remix Pg. 54
"Stationary models cannot move, perform actions, make attacks, cast spells, use animi, use feats, or give orders."

Knocked Down reads:
Prime Remix Pg. 52
"A knocked down model is stationary until it stands up...To stand up, a model must forfeit either its movement or its action this activation."

as this would not fall into any of these categories would I be able to use her Fell Calls if she was with either status?

Grissel's Fell Calls read as such (card and book match):
Primal Pg. 83
"Bloodsong may make one of the following calls any time during her activation..."

Grissel + Longriders

So in my loving my new Grissel lists and reading Metamorphosis' new cast of characters (Horthol, Long Rider Champion) I had an idea for her: How does she react to Longriders?  Do people avoid using Longriders with her due to the shorter range of her fell calls?  

What's to stop me from activating Grissel, fell calling Hoof It to the Longriders, casting Cacophony onto a unit, cast Rush on one yak-rider, activate the Axer, cast Rush on another yak-rider, activate and charge that unit with the Longriders (7"+5"+2" reach at an effective MAT11), then after the army has completed their activations, pull the longriders back their 7" move.

Faction: Trollblood

Points: 495

Model Count: 18

Victory Points: 18

Grissel Bloodsong, Fell Caller

Troll Axer

Troll Impaler

Fell Caller

Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes [6] (2 added)

Trollkin Champions [5]

Trollkin Long Riders [3] (0 added)

Life Interjects Without Prior Warning

Ok, this Saturday is tourney #3 for Warmachine/Hordes @ Sunshine Adventure Gaming.

I signed up. I fucked around, I checked out some stuff. Apparently this weekend is the final weekend for the local Renaissance Festival. My wife and I thoroughly enjoyed it two years ago and the year prior to that (the shit I am, I put it off so long last year we literally pulled into the parking lot as the caravan pulled out). I want to go this year and feel bad about spoiling last year so I am taking my wife on Saturday.

This now leaves my play group shy one player. I feel guilty (as I should I gave them my word I would be there, butas the post title says, Life Interjected).

I will be playing at League Night this Thursday (with my Grissel Evo III list and a Grim list of which I am getting more and more comfortable with). I've finageled with the wife to allow me another gaming night because I'm missing the tourney and she agreed, so I'm trying to get in a night to play against Gabe and Cary to sharpen me a bit more.

I've got three League weeks left to eke out some sort of standing (other than on the ground), maybe I could get in some league games instead of going to Gabe's?

The next league looks like it will be the MKII Beta Test league and me without a Warmachine Army. Unless Gabe wants to forego the MKII Beta I don't think I'll be able to play in that league, maybe I can get together with the other Hordes players (mental note: Stephan - Skorne, Cesar - Circle, Mario - Legion, Ashe - Circle) on league nights and get in some games.

First 750 Point Game

Played a 750 point game against Stephan yesterday.

His army:
Faction: Skorne
Points: 746
Model Count: 34
Victory Points: 27

Lord Assassin Morghoul
Basilisk Krea
Cyclops Brute
Titan Cannoneer
Ancestral Guardian
Ancestral Guardian
Extoller Soulward
Cataphract Cetrati [5] (1 added)
Paingiver Beast Handlers [4] (0 added)
Praetorian Ferox [3] (0 added)
Praetorian Swordsmen [7] (1 added)
Venators [8] (2 added)

My army:
Faction: Trollblood
Points: 741
Model Count: 27
Victory Points: 25

Borka Kegslayer
> Pyg Keg Carrier
Pyre Troll
Pyre Troll
Dire Troll Mauler
Fell Caller
Stone Scribe Chronicler
Trollkin Hero
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes [6] (2 added)
> Stone Scribe Elder [1]
Trollkin Champions [5]
Trollkin Long Riders [5] (2 added)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew [2]

The game went well, I went against my better judgment and chose to go for straight caster kill as this was both of our first 750 point games.
At the end I was able to make my assassination run with Borka and would have made it if I hadn't sallied the first three swings.
Assassination went like this:
Pyg Keg Carrier activates - Gives Borka Liquid Courage
Dire Troll Mauler activates - Casts Rage animus on Borka (+3 STR) [2 Fury], Two hand throws Borka [3 Fury], Boosts to hit [4 Fury]. Borka deviates 2 inches to the 1 (woot! Borka ended within 3 inches of Morghul)
Borka Kegslayer activates - Borka charges (advances) to Morghul, Morghul takes his free swing from Liquid Courage, whiffs. Borka starts with a headbutt, needing a 10 boosts to hit [1 Fury], misses. Borka swings with Trauma, needing 10, boosts to hit [2 Fury], misses. Borka takes another swing with Trauma [3 Fury], needing 10, boosts to hit [4 Fury], HITS! Boost to damage [5 Max Fury], Borka swings and does 12 damage!

However, I failed to include the +3 STR from the Mauler and the additional Damage Die from Liquid courage.
Stephan chose *not* to transfer damage when he had 1 point of fury left on Morghul and had I remembered my additional buffs I would have easily killed him.

Lessons learned:
1.) Remember what buffs are on your models. I may need to pick up those WarCogs or WarClaws that GF9 is selling to help me with this.
2.) Keep your Fell Caller alive long enough to sing War Cry to Borka so he can smash those hard to hit casters like Morghul.
3.) Perhaps the ARM bonus is all you need from the Krielstone, the STR bonus was nice, but where his Ferox were riding up behind me the ARM bonus would have dragged out the KSB rearguard as a more tarpit than they were.

MVP's: the Trollkin Longriders. They took a beating and kept on hacking away, tough as nails.

Playing With Tabletop Commander

Read a quick post by Aslain Kehog (sp?) on Iron Agenda's forums talking about using all the new minion warcasters in one army. this is similar to the list he proposes:

Faction: Trollblood
Points: 740
Model Count: 15
Victory Points: 26

Grim Angus
Troll Impaler
Earthborn Dire Troll
Trollkin Hero
Trollkin Champions [5]
Brun Cragback
> Lug
Dahlia Hallyr
> Skarath
Rorsh
> Brine

i'd be very curious to see it on the table and see how it works

Trolls 1, Khador 0

got a game against Guy tonight. He played:

Faction: Khador
Points: 500
Model Count: 14
Victory Points: 18

Kommander Sorscha Kratikoff
> Devastator
Kovnik Markov
Man-O-War Drakhun
> Man-O-War Drakhun (Dismounted)
Iron Fang Uhlans [4] (1 added)
Winterguard Mortar Crew [2]
Winterguard Mortar Crew [2]
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios


(I think)

I played:
Faction: Trollblood
Points: 493
Model Count: 12
Victory Points: 17

Grim Angus
Troll Impaler
Troll Impaler
Dire Troll Mauler
Fell Caller
Trollkin Champions [5]
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew [2]

We agreed on playing for scenario we chose No Man's Land. He went first. On my second turn I ran my Champions, an Impaler, and Dire Troll Mauler into the scoring zone. I popped my feat and kept all but his Uhlan's from being able to jump into the zone. The Uhlan's could have gotten into scoring but Guy decided to try for caster kill and didn't make it.
At that point I offered another game but Guy wanted to finish out the current game trying for caster kill. I think I did a good job of winning the scenario. The sole thing I should have done would have been to tether one of his Uhlans outside of the scoring zone to make sure I had the win.
I'm very happy with my performance and suspect it's my training sessions with the local PG that helped achieve this.

After the win, when we continued for caster kill he finished me off with Mortar fire, Sorscha feated and smoked most of my Champs, the Uhlans got off a charge on Grim which required quite a bit of damage transfers. He caster-killed me but I got this win :)

On Modeling

I've been slacking this week with my modeling, although in my defense my wife and I went to our karate class every night and i've got the bruises and sore neck to prove it. Not to mention my training game on Monday with my local PG.

Anyhoo, I've got two models coming today @ my LGS, Sunshine Adventure Gaming. I've got the Trollkin Hero in all his top-knot glory as well as a Stone Scribe Chronicler.
I think they will be built tonight and possibly decorative-basing done.

Then I will begin my Greenstuff work. I've got some ginormous gaps to fill with Greenstuff. Particularly, I'm concerned about my Earthborn Dire Troll, I need to strengthen those joins as I didn't pin his fat-ass.
Some others of note are my Longriders, thank Dhunia that the gaps are in the yak-fur and easy to hide. Pyre Troll #2 - in his wrists. Dire Troll Mauler - especially his headspikes, will have to be careful to blend it well onto the model.

After Greenstuffing (hopefully a short process) I can add sand to the bases then prime them! Woot!

If i have time after basing and priming, I may be able to finish the models I started forever ago, my two Impalers, Axer, Madrak, Kenny and Borka.

I need to slow down on my purchases or I'll never get these guys painted

In other news I want to pick up a Dire Troll Blitzer and Alten Ashley.

Revised Borka Molotov Cocktails

Faction: Trollblood
Points: 498
Model Count: 18
Victory Points: 18

Borka Kegslayer
> Pyg Keg Carrier
Pyre Troll
Pyre Troll
Fell Caller
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes [4] (0 added)
Trollkin Champions [5]
Trollkin Long Riders [4] (1 added)

I think the Champs need the Fell Caller a lot more than they needed the Swamp Gobbers

My Goal

My goal for the next tourney.
I plan on winning one game.
I will not go 0-3. I will be more than happy with 1-2. :)
I will be a good sport, but I will not be so much of a "nice guy"
I will call my opponent on it when he/she is not playing by the rules of the tournament.
I will bring over the TO in the event my opponent continues to bend/skirt around the rules of thr tourney.
I will win at least one game.

I need to come up with a second list.

Faction: Trollblood
Points: 489
Model Count: 13

Grim Angus
Troll Impaler
Earthborn Dire Troll
Fell Caller
Trollkin Hero
Trollkin Champions [5]
Stone Scribe Chronicler
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

Basic strategy:
Impaler, EBDT, and Grim can sneak off to hide in trees and snipe anything possible. If range is available send EBDT as missle.
Champs, Hero, Fell Caller, Gobbers and Chronicler act as a pure death squad with the Champs leading the charge.

Experimental Borka List...or Molotov Cocktals for EVERYONE!

Faction: Trollblood
Points: 496
Model Count: 20
Victory Points: 19

Borka Kegslayer
> Pyg Keg Carrier
Pyre Troll
Pyre Troll
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes [4] (0 added)
> Stone Scribe Elder [1]
Trollkin Champions [5]
Trollkin Long Riders [4] (1 added)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew [2]

Thoughts and strategies:
Each Pyre Troll can (and will) cast its animus on a champion. Borka then casts it on two champs. The stone scribe elder then uses his STR buff so that the champs are now hitting at +4 STR plus concert bonuses. If they charged (instead of being charged) theyre hitting at P+S 12+4 +3D6. Hitting at an average 26. After concert bonuses the final champ hits at STR 12+4+4 +3D6 with an average of 30.
The problem being is that there are a lot of little pieces to come together to make it all work.

Inventory

In response to the post over @ Getting Small

My Inventory:

Warlocks
Madrak Ironhide
Hoarluk Doomshaper
Borka Kegslayer + Pyg Keg Carrier
Grim Angus

Warbeasts
Dire Troll Mauler
Dire Troll Mauler
Earthborn Dire Troll
Troll Axer
Troll Impaler
Troll Impaler
Pyre Troll
Pyre Troll
Winter Troll

Units
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (full) + Stone Scribe Elder
Trollkin Longriders (full)
Trollkin Champions

Solos
Fell Caller

Well, it would seem that I have an affinity for warbeasts...I didn't realize the disparity there. Ive got a pair of new solos on their way (Stone Scribe Chronicler and a Trollkin Hero). Perhaps I would do well to pick up some Pyg Bushwhackers or Burrowers. I don't see the utility of the Kriel Warriors without the Madrak brick which I would prefer not to use. I don't have any interest in Trollkin Scattergunners either.
Anyways Metamorphosis is coming out in a few short weeks. There should be at least one new unit and hopefully another solo.

Revising Grim List

I posted my list on PP's forums to get some feedback on it. The most interesting point that was made was that, as there is only one beast on the list, meaning that if he dies or is full fury or frenzied, I have -zero- damage transfers available to me.
From that nugget, I went ahead and added the normal "Grim auto-include" beast, an Impaler.
Had to drop some to get him in. Which led to a tough decision so I posed the question on Guru Dojo where a Troll-vet (Not Dice) responded and gave me a good piece of advice: Drop the Krielstone Bearer.

This is the list at the moment:
489/500

Grim Angus
Earthborn Dire Troll
Troll Impaler
Trollkin Champions
Trollkin Hero
Fell Caller
Stone Scribe Chronicler
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

Not Dice also let me know that Concealment and Screening bonuses stack, which means that if I stick Grim in some woods behind the EBDT using the EBDT's ARM stat, he's at 19 DEF, 18 ARM.

I'm looking forward to getting this together and playing Gabe with it next week (hopefully).

Purchases: I've ordered some more models from Sunshine, some will come in this Friday (1/23/09) some next Friday (1/30/09):

• 1/23/09


• Pyre Troll x2


• Stone Scribe Elder


• Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew


• 1/30/09


• Trollkin Hero


• Stone Scribe Chronicler

In other news, Friday will be a building model night. I've got the following to build:

• Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (full unit)


• Hoarluk Doomshaper


• Trollkin Longriders x2


• Pyre Troll x2


• Stone Scribe Elder


• Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

Musings

Trollbloods
497/500
17 VPs
===========
Grim Angus
Earthborn Dire Troll
Fell Caller
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes [5] (1 added)
Trollkin Champions [5]
Trollkin Long Riders [4] (1 added)

How would this list have worked against the Menoth list last night (knowing what I know now)?
1.) I would have set up to one side of the center. Long Riders would be set in the front with the Fell Caller set behind them. The Champs would then follow aith the KSB crew behind them. Then to one side (not sure) would be Grim + EBDT.
1a.) If I set Grim + EBDT in the center behind the troops, They will have a hard time maneuvering to take the assasination attempt.
1b.) If I set Grim + EBDT to the left side of the troops they would be more vulnerable to assasination from the Holy Hand Grenade guys. Although, Grim can use EBDT's animus to increase his ARM from 15 to 18 and he would be screened (hopefully) by EBDT increasing his DEF from 16 to 18.
1c.) If I set Grim + EBDT to the right side of the troops they would be less vulnerable to the Hand Grenade guys however Vilmon and the Cav may circumvent the troop block.

Letter to Obi-Wan

Ok, went to the TO's house last night and got in a "learning game" against his Menoth (yes, it was recorded in my Win/Loss chart with a large L). He taught me a few crucial lessons:

1.) Do not divide your army unless you will be bringing a superior force, this just allows the opponent to pick you apart piece by piece.
2.) Be mindful of the terrain - both in the game we played and my last game at the tournament I charged my champs up into the exact center to hold the mosh pit. Not necessary, I had room outside the terrain feature that I could still hold the area and be in a better tactical position with my models where they would have their charge lanes unhindered.
3.) Layer attacks. Do not use the army as a bunch of solos, but use them in concert with each other. For example striking first with my Longriders then following up with the champions to clean up what is left.
4.) Be able to deal with certain situations: Infantry heavy hordes (not Hordes) armies and Hard as nails Models (Behemoth, etc.) while still being able to face down the assassination list.

Anyways, this is the email and list I worked up for our next match:

Ok, after our discussion last night I thought about what models kept poppoing up in all the lists:

in no particular order with their benefits:
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes: give a +2ARM buff to protect other models
Trollkin Champions: Concert increases melee effectiveness with each model in line; Brothers in arms increases melee DEF +2; 8hit points per model=40hp unit; very good ginsu unit
Fell Caller: Reville stands up units without having to waste an action or movement; War Cry +2 MAT/RAT buff; Open Road grants pathfinder
Trollkin Longriders: Hard as nails; easy slams; mounts crit knockdown
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew: Concealment.


I took those and created a list:
Faction: Trollblood
Points: 497
Model Count: 17
Victory Points: 17

Grim Angus - 13" headhunter range, manhunter knockdown, sees through forests, can allow models in his army see and charge through forests
Earthborn Dire Troll - his interaction with grim allows for possible +4" charge range (12" total), gives Grim +2 armor if in base to base, is able to take out the heavy hitters (behemoth, devout, etc)
Fell Caller - see above
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes [5] (1 added) - see above
Trollkin Champions [5] - see above
Trollkin Long Riders [4] (1 added) - see above


Champs allow me to take on the horde-type infantry with the KSB and Fell Caller backing them up. The long riders would be able to either be the initial strike at such an an army or would be able to come in the flank and mop up what the champs don't kill. Grim and Earthborn would be able to hunt down enemy caster as the Earthborn gives his armor to a model in base contact, protecting Grim. Grim would be able to snipe softer targets while EBDT will be able to smack hardened targets.

I've been thinking a lot about the "layers" you were talking about and I see this list as being able to satisfy that well.
Thoughts?

Ray

First Tournament

Played in my first tournament today. Not my best showing.

Game 1 vs. Cygnar-Haley
I knew I would be facing Haley this tourney at least once and I knew I had a very hard time facing her last time. I built my Grim list to face her.
Well, turn 2 I took my shot, I found a line of sight and the range and took a shot at her. POW! 15 damage. Unfortunately she was sitting on one focus...she ran back, hid and healed a bit. He left her open once more and Grim took another crack at her, this time Grim was only able to eke out 3 points of damage and Grim was out in the open. Next turn Grim was dead :( oops.

Lesson taught (not necessarily learned): Don't leave your caster out unless you're 100% sure you'll make your shot.

Game 2 vs. Skorne-Makeda
Played my Grim list again. The scenario was to control slices of the board. I tried a couple shots at Makeda but couldn't make it happen. The last time (again) Grim's dick was hanging in the wind.

Lesson taught (not necessaruly learned, again): See above

Game 3 vs. Cygnar-Stryker
Played Borka. A couple bad moves on my part, I didn't leave Borka out in the open this time but I mis-judged charge range and lanes on an assassination attempt on Stryker. At this time both Winter and Dire Troll Mauler were wiped out along with my Longriders and 40% of my champs.

Lesson taught: It's *just* a game. Don't worry so much.

I am working on a Grim Angus board control army and currently am using the Winter Troll (along with a pair of Impalers). I've also seen other people's lists using pretty much any beast along with Grim.

I see the following beasts as "sympathetic" with Grim and his abilities:
Dire Troll Blitzer - as additional ranged attacks and a beat-stick where necessary
Earthborn Dire Troll - many people (myself included) find it had to leave home without him in tow with his Earthborn Missle
Troll Axer - generally only taken with the Earthborn to add insult to injury (14" charge range).
Troll Impaler - his animus makes him an auto-include (IMO) with any Grim list
Winter Troll - to augment Grim's board control element
Pyre Troll - as additional ranged attacks and a beat-stick where necessary, his AOE will keep opponent's units spread out

Now from that I can pull the models I feel best exemplify the board control element:
Troll Impaler
Winter Troll
Pyre Troll

As we've already covered the Impaler is auto include in my list, my question is this:
Which is your preference in a board control list and why?

Spoke with the local Press Ganger last night. Learned some new information about the game. I think I want to get over to his place to get some more games in, he is very right that losing is a learning experience but losing to a better player is a much better learning experience.

He commented that with an army you need to find the piece that's broken and abuse it in order to maximise your winning potential. I can take that and extrapolate the thought to "All's fair in Love and War". As long as I'm playing in a "war game" I can play the army I find is the best for the situation and expect that my opponent will do the same.

With that I'm considering my next 500pt army for a tournament:

Grim Angus - 76
Winter Troll - 75
Troll Impaler - 75
Troll Impaler - 75
Trollkin Longriders - 87
Trollkin Champions - 106

12 models, 494 points

Strategy: Grim is the assassin, able to shoot 17" and do a fair amount of damage. He is also skilled at board control. He will tether models as necessary, but most likely be used as the sniper from afar. Impalers are added for their animus and also the knockdown potential. Winter Troll will cast freezer on a longrider or champion (longrider as stated before gives a bigger sphere of "freezing") Grim can also cast the same on another person (in the same or different unit) causing the opponent to engage and freeze in place or not engage and be charged. Longriders can knock down and champs are there to escort Grim. Anything knocked down has a ranged defense of 5, making for easy pickings with Grim, but also anything that may have been screened is now no longer screening.
The weakness would be an anti-ranged list, but perhaps the longriders and champs can mitigate that somewhat.

Monday (er, Tuesday) Morning QB

Ok, going over it in my head, where did I go wrong last night:

1.) I didn't use my cavalry to their best. They were set up far left and could have swept around and flanked, but didn't, instead got caught up with the Raptors
2.) I didn't know the exact rules for light cav which I think would have allowed one of my cav models to survive
3.) I continue to go after the warbeasts and units instead of the warcaster
4.) I didn't commit enough resources to removing the Angelius, I should have left the Seraph with my Winter Troll and attacked Angelius with the Fell Caller, Winter Troll, *and* Borka to make sure that he didn't get back up
5.) I set my


Now, what did I do right?

1.) I remembered to camp some focus in order to perform damage transfers
2.) I remembered my tough rolls
3.) I got my Freezer off on a couple guys, my opponent admitted that this forced a couple of moves which were not intended
4.) I set up the Borka throw and would have gotten it off if the Angelius didn't splatter my Mauler the turn it did